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me2oh.com Sponsors The 1st Question: Episode 99
lol .. how cool is that?! A full game show in SL .. gotta go see that later today live.
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Emerald Team Responds to Linden Lab
Is LL overreacting?
What exactly happened?I have no idea. One thing's sure; this makes me sad :(
Basically, it seems that Linden Lab required certain things of the Emerald team that they were either unable or unwilling to provide. The team split up as a result and several of the developers created the Phoenix viewer, which is going to pick up where Emerald left off.
Here's the background...
Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
Linden Lab Blocks the Emerald Viewer -
Emerald Team Responds to Linden Lab
Is LL overreacting?
What exactly happened?I have no idea. One thing's sure; this makes me sad :(
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
Indeed enabling the advanced menus was great when I found it, but I can see why they chose to hide them from new users, it so wasn't necessary the first few days I played. Could fix this with a toggle of two stages, Basic/beginner <--> Builder/advanced and filter several aspects of the interface in and out relevant to the user type.
There is a enough room for the profile they just scrunch up everything at the top which is silly. ....but hey who needs it right? You can have the best SL profile here at me2oh!! no JIRA required!!
I prefer building in v2 mainly because thats where I started and like I said I felt a depreciated experience in all other viewers I tested so i really didn't give them too terribly much of a chance. Hippo on my opensim was rather interesting though since I could walk/climb cleanly on large complex sculpted low prim mountains I imported from blender. While V2 worked perfectly on my opensim it has a built in 10m prim size limit which just wouldn't do for true creativity.
The older users have plenty of viewers to choose from so all that aside...Linden I think was genius with v2; yes they pushed the viewer out early but really they needed to for testing and hammering out the kinks.... In the end new users will likely perceive V2 to be the main cheese to install & start with it... even if just based on visual appeal all other viewers they see will seem outdated essentially. Linden just needs to keep up their plan of accelerated releases, bug fixes and enhancements, my guess is their bet it will hook new users into the LL viewer until someone comes along with a better one :P
Certainly there are features in phoenix that seem awesome and id love to see replicated in V2, double click tp, see where other users are looking, etc ... and the other way around perhaps media on a prim and other such V2 goodies for phoenix who knows. A world without competition gets rather drab and boring doesnt it?
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This is just a test...
Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text.
This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test.
Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here.
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Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text. Blah blah blah. Test text.
This is a test. Nothing more to see here.
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This is just a test...
This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here. This is a test. Nothing more to see here.
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
I am a highly technical person i.e. Blender3d & deep time in deep code doesn't intimidate me one bit. So thats a big no on the Old Outdated viewers being too complex LOL! I found them to be as highly un-intuitive as one would expect for something as dated as they are.
You're definitely not the target audience of the new viewer because you're not a "typical" user. I'd also make the argument that...
unintuitive == too complex
;)I do agree there are some things to tweak in the new viewer, such as the hideous profiles and yes too many clicks to *some* things...
The profiles being hideous is a direct result of trying to squeeze every feature possible into the new "sidebar". I like the sidebar for quick access to certain pieces of information. Profiles isn't one of those things. Being able to open many profiles and wait for them all to load was a big plus with the earlier viewer, for example. If you meet several new people at the same time, Viewer 2 is not a timesaver.
Other things make the sidebar superior, such as getting around one's own inventory. I like having a button to click to quickly get to my landmarks folder. It makes it slightly faster to teleport while shopping, etc. The landmarks bar at the top of the screen is great, too. I've put links to all my important places up there so I can get to them with a single click and without ever opening my inventory. Anything that saves me clicks gets points. Anything that adds clicks had better have a very good reason for it. In UI design, there's a danger that simplifying one thing will cause something else to become overly complex (e.g., hiding a complex feature behind several clicks or new preferences). I see this in a few places in Viewer 2. As a designer/developer, one must be able to defend the reason(s) for this happening.
The relocation of many "Advanced" menu items into yet-another-hidden-menu (the "Develop" menu) that needs to be "unlocked" first is a perfect example of this. We now have to unlock two menus... and one is used to unlock the other! It would have been better to simply group all the "Develop" menu items into a "Develop" submenu under the "Advanced" menu. And, frankly, having to unlock the "Advanced" menu isn't really necessary. It should just be there. (And if this paragraph was hard to read, know that it was painful for me to write. That's a clear indication that something is wrong in the UI and needs simplification.)
As far as editing my appearance... I liked it better when it wasn't in the sidebar. The same is true for getting information about the current land parcel. I can understand why they did this with the land, though. Showing a brief overview of the land and requiring another click to see the old details panel can be justified as "easier for new people". Give me the option of going straight to the old info panel with my first click, however. I don't want minor details. When I look at land info, I want all the information in a tabbed panel.
...but really thats super easy to fix and will likely be fixed sooner then later.
Normally, I'd say that I think "later rather than sooner" is more like it, but Viewer 2, even after leaving beta testing, has been updating fairly often compared to the rate of release for updates of Viewer 1. Having said that, the fixes being implemented all depend on whether or not the Lab agrees with us. It's all about the JIRA tickets.
I know this much... If I were Linden Lab, I'd rather have people fighting about which of my products they liked more than not caring one way or the other. :-)
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
Well I have to disagree of course :P ... I am a highly technical person i.e. Blender3d & deep time in deep code doesn't intimidate me one bit. So thats a big no on the Old Outdated viewers being too complex LOL! I found them to be as highly un-intuitive as one would expect for something as dated as they are.
I do agree there are some things to tweak in the new viewer, such as the hideous profiles and yes too many clicks to *some* things, but really thats super easy to fix and will likely be fixed sooner then later.
In the old viewers I felt lost and disconnected from just about everything, which of course is directly related to the fact I started on V2; I couldnt even walk on Emerald the first 3 times I tried it. That said most every user coming into SL is going to start on V2 .. and when they see the old turds folks are trying to convince them to essentially downgrade to, its going to turn their stomach much like they did for me.
I hope LL continues to innovate and enhance the *current* generation viewer, bringing in elements that keep it as fresh and usable as possible; including the essential concerns of seasoned users into the mix but not allowing them to hold things back either. It's a delicate rope to walk and I think LL is on a good and proper track with V2. Aside from all our opinions Darius is spot on, we have many viewers to choose from, which is really quite awesome when you think about it.!
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
The viewer 2 interface sucks like an industrial Dyson.
It needs some help, but I don't hate it as much as you do. ;-)
I view it as a "starter" viewer. A user can pick up all the basic features in an hour, without asking for any help (many new residents don't know anyone in SL) and use another viewer later if they wish. The UI isn't as powerful, but that's the point. It's a simple, web-like interface that most users will understand almost immediately. Many features are hidden from view for this reason (just look at the menus... several things were moved into the Advanced menu and another new, hidden menu that was added for who knows what reason).
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
The viewer 2 interface sucks like an industrial Dyson. As for the 1.x viewer being too overwhelming - for the love of gods (swears edited out), I am one of the least technical people on the planet - I STILL walk into walls, I STILL have really crap camera controls - and I always managed with a version of the 1.x viewers until Emerald came along - and the sweet joy of the traditional viewer - you could ask a resident and chances are they'd know - or know where to find out. it isn't rocket science to do the basics - building etc - there are lessons and notecards with helpful hints - not to mention those damned cheerful youtube vids. Do we really need to dumb down the viewer to attract newbies? There are a lot of reasons that new residents give up and leave in a week or two, in my experience the viewer isn't high on that list.
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Irked
The advertising for whatever designers get used will be worth a fortune - but no actual reward - and I am a stylist - making men look good is what I DO!
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
@Firehorse:
I think your argument is the one I read from a lot of existing residents. I'm a little torn myself. I've been around (in one form or another) since 2005, and I actually like some features of Viewer 2. There are several things that I do not love, however. For me, it's not as much about rendering or performance, rather, it's about the user interface. There are a few things in Viewer 2 that simply take too many clicks. For now, I use Viewer 2 mainly because I want to use/see all the new features (shared media prims, for one). I haven't built anything complex with Viewer 2, and I always preferred one of the third-party viewers for building anyway.
I understand the point that Linden Lab was trying to make with Viewer 2, and I think it was probably a smart move. Viewer 2 is directed at new users. I think that Linden Lab realized that their version 1.x viewer might have been a little too overwhelming for new, non-technical residents and decided to address that issue. I think they have, even if Viewer 2 requires a few UI tweaks. And, for everyone else who prefers something else, there are the third-party viewers. They just have some catching up to do with regard to supporting the new features that Linden Lab introduced.
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Irked
Lol .. your kidding .. no reward at all?
I would think the winner should get something :/ -
Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
lol .. I've never used facebook either :P So I suppose its more you were used to the xp-ish interface. I started on V2 and when I tested the others and older versions it was like being back on a comador64 or something lol.
Cheers!
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
I'm a long time resident - the problem with viewer 2 wasn't my poor old sick computer but the layout of the interface and the fact that things - especially avatars just never rezzed - and at first I did think the lack of rez was an issue with my machine, but then I started to ask around and it seems that unless you have a very high end machine it's a pretty common problem - and the buttons are all in the wrong places - or missing. Maybe it is, in part, a generational thing, viewer 2 is supposed to appeal to the Facebook generation - which I am certainly not a member of - I loathe and detest almost everything about Facebook - especially the interface. With viewers it is, and always has been, horses for courses, but I suspect that given a level playing field viewer 2 would only actually be used by a minority of residents.
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
I have to disagree .. I think emerald was a turd and the old LL viewer as well; but then again im a noob! I think your problems with v2 probably has far more to do with your...
... poor old and sick computer ...
...than anything. The interface in V2 is massively more intuitive and worthy of interaction IMO. I will admit one thing only about emerald .. it had better frame rates for me at least, I simply couldn't get past the XP-turdified interface and lack of all the V2 features.
Still im going to try out Phoenix .. I liked their speed but the interface and lack of features was a deal breaker for me last time.
Cheers!
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Emerald is Dead. A Phoenix Will Rise.
And it WORKS! Thank gods - there is no way I will use the viewer 2 - I am too old to want to learn how to use a whole new interface - and to be honest I loved Emerald - it worked. It did all the things I need it to (which, to be frank, isn't much), it had the lovely worn items tab and it was by far the most reliable viewer I used ever. I ignored all the copybot drama connected with it, ignored pretty much everything about it, apart from it working more reliably with my poor old and sick computer than any other viewer I tried. When it all went horribly wrong - I was thrown. What to do? Obviously LL are going to stop people logging in with Emerald, sooner rather than later - and Emerald is, officially, dead. Imprudence just refused to work (it wouldn't ever show me the log in page) and Snowglobe is just a pain in the ass to use. So I was guardedly excited about Phoenix (after all - maybe it wouldn't work for me), but, JOY, it did work - in fact it seems to work fine - a quick log in shows nothing major wrong (well - I can't see half my furniture or back wall of my house - but I know it's there as my av falls over the invisible furniture). So saved again.
The question I can't help but ask is why LL didn't make the RC an Emerald type clone to start with - rather than a viewer which confuses newbie and established residents alike? You know - if a viewer needs tutorial videos (plural) for even old residents to use then the chances are it isn't up to the job. But enough of that rant for now. YAY for Phoenix - here's hoping it KEEPS working. -
Garden of Absentia 3
Cool .. you should make a Destination profile for it http://me2oh.com/destinations
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Breadcrumbs
Breadcrumbs are done. If anyone finds one that doesn't seem right, please post a link to the page here and tell me whether you were logged in at the time when you viewed the page (and, if you were logged in, the avatar name you were logged into), so that I can test and troubleshoot.
I'll also be checking various sections of the site and tinkering with the breadcrumbs if I find anything that doesn't look quite right, but I'm calling this one "done". :)
Thanks!
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me2oh Full-Page Ad to Appear in Second Style Magazine
The ad looks great! Good idea, I wonder how many other Second Life publications are out there, thats the first ive seen but im a total noob so I dunno lol.
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Breadcrumbs
It was very nice to meet up with you as well. :)
I'm still working on the breadcrumbs, but I'll have them all sorted out either tonight or tomorrow.
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Breadcrumbs
Yay! :P
Thanks for adding the breadcrumbs!It was nice to see you in-world and check out the cool me2oh office!
Cheers!
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Breadcrumbs
Breadcrumbs are now enabled on the site. They are still being configured, so they will be a little...weird...until all the work is done. They should be good to go sometime later today or tonight. I'm sure we'll also tweak them a little over the next couple of weeks.
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Xantarius Cain 02-13-2010 (1d)
Cool .. ill go check out their store in-world. :)
Cheers! -
Xantarius Cain 02-13-2010 (1d)
Thanks! :)
It's the Scorpio Dystopia skin from Abyss.
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